Lovecraft's Necronomicon: Nilhilism, Cosmic Horror, Jung & Steiner - pontos fathom podcast - EP04
Welcome to pontos fathom press fourth episode of the pontos fathom podcast - EP04 Lovecraft's Necronomicon: Nilhilism, Cosmic Horror, CG Jung & Rudolf Steiner. Why do we love cosmic horror and the concept of the Necronomicon? Is it just fun to be scared with horror fiction, or are there psychological and occult aspects. We will look at the idea of good fiction, and progress through themes of Nihilism, Eternal Reoccurrence, Jungian Shadow work and Wotan, and final the role of Archangel Michael in Rudolf Steiner. Thanks for watching and let me know your thoughts in the comments below!
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Welcome everyone to pontos fathom press this is our fourth podcast on lovecraft we were doing a lovecraft all this month and our fourth podcast is going to take us into an interesting space between deep time jungian themes themes of rudolph steiner and nihilism but also the fun hoaxy side of necronomicons and and also what is that urge why do we all love lovecraft so much and why do we why are there so many people trying to jump into the the faux necronomicon space yeah and it's you know i just finished reading the the actually this is my second time i bought it so daniel harms and john wiscons let you guys know i bought your book twice now so this is a great book this is a a newer edition different shape of the book but this is a great book the necronomicon files maybe we'll start with this book so necronomicon files is a basically a study of lovecraft's fictional texts so as you guys know and if you've seen the other podcasts in pontus fathom press podcast series we've been doing lovecraft all month and i was reading a bit from the necronomicon and and kind of tracing the way the necronomicon as a fictional device let's say is you know it's it's the boba fett of the of the lovecraft universe you know in in the original it's the it's the way that we instantly know we're in lovecraftian waters is when there's a reference to the necronomicon.
You know and this kind of shorthand that that authors can do when they have a mythos like this is is fantastic but more than that there's sort of like this extended universe that's been built up around the necronomicon and the necronomicon files as a book really explores that debunks several of the faux necronomicons that are out there many of which i've also owned oh and speaking of that just quick shout out to the channel august moldenhauer's genealogy of cthulhu it's a three volume set you get the genealogy of cthulhu psychoanalysis of irelia archaeology of yog sothoff you can check out the links down below they are york sothothery at its best looking into lovecraftian links to history the psychoanalysis of necronomicon fragments and the gibbering chaos of lovecraftian writing and finally the virulent cosmic strains of yogsathothery like breadcrumbs to the witch house of azathoth so please check these out if you want to support the channel also have patreon link below but back to necronomicon files i i think there's something interesting here you know the urge for people to create necronomicons right is speaking to something else and that's what i want to really focus today's podcast on like what is that attraction to this idea of the dark dark text the dark grimoire so you know this sort of dark kind of key to the whole lovecraftian universe so what the necronomicon files as a book does i'm not going to kind of go into that language angle but i kind of want to give a brief summary they do a great job of looking at origins of things that are mentioned by lovecraft like in our podcast we've talked about pika tricks we've talked about john d because they're all mentioned by lovecraft right or inferred let's say inverted donde is called out but pika tricks might be inferred and then they kind of take a step further what were lovecraft's inspirations for the for the necronomicon and even blavatsky's isis unveiled comes out which is you know a huge cornerstone of science and theology from the fiasco theosophical works so there's that kind of components of necronomicon files but then necronomicon files also goes into these hoax texts whereas people are just jumping on the lovecraft bandwagon so to speak and and or or are they and
This is where i want to come in say it's not just about finding is there a real necronomicon i think it's much deeper than that and this is what i kind of want to explore and i think if we go back to just the attraction of it you know there's a great quote on the back here by steve jackson who himself is a fourth wall breaking game maker and with some occult overtones that are fun right so i think there's this occult and fun overtone in the magic that i think we don't we don't want to lose sight of right and the steve jackson quote says i've always enjoyed the cthulhu mythos as a brilliant fiction it is i'm delighted to see this thorough debunking of those who would spoil the fun by insisting it's real now this is really interesting because listen i am one who thinks lovecraft is fun one of my favorite horror authors i have a channel paul toss fathom hobbies where i play eldritch horror cthulhu wars and cthulhu death may die i play love craft-based games desktop games so believe me i understand the fun side of it love the texts publishing lovecraftian books i get the space so i think to steve jackson's point yes it is fun and but for me as a as a kind of collector of the weird what i think is very fascinating to me is that they even exist these necronomicon copies and so many of them speaks to something that i kind of want to address in today's podcast so what is what is the profile like what is the what is this proliferation of necronomicons really about and i've got it narrowed down to three areas that i kind of want to talk about today area one well maybe it could be four i mean the obvious one is it's cool fiction and it's fun as steve jackson attests to and as the necronomicon files as a book does a great job of listing out they've got a whole section in the in the final part about the necronomicon in books and entertainment things like this but they also do a great job of debunking declaranomicons and also looking at the occult roots of necronomicon so i think it's a great this book i just finished reading it so it's hot off the rereading it so it's hot on my mind but i think the one area that i'd like to expand on that the necronomicon files does a great job is what is the intersection between people's interest in cthulhu and maybe the categories are nihilism right or occult practices in general right or deep history ancient aliens and then finally jungian shadow work and then maybe as at the end we'll talk about rudolph steiner and ariman so it's going to get serious here but it's not to say that necronomicons are real but what is our desire to have necronomicons all about i mean really a necronom and i think this comes from necronomicon files i think john wisdom says why would you want to have a book that summons the great old ones i mean it's kind of a fantastic horrific idea right and that's what makes the fiction great fun it's what makes the games great fun we get to role play that out but but i i want to kind of take us back maybe let's go from the the least spiritual to the philosophical to the theological and then finally off the rails into the deep occult mystery mystery schools kind of talk so we'll start out with fiction the lovecraft work itself it's a fantastic device of a fiction to have the idea of a ancient text i mean like you know it's it's the letters of jonathan harker in dracula it's the king and yellow from chambers books right it's you know the it's the play within the play of hamlet we love to have books within a mythos you know it's how many books are mentioned in the harry potter series i mean and even in lovecraft there's others there's panatic manuscripts there's the borehases kind of libraries and maps that are great devices and fiction so i think right off it's just great fun writing and it's something that gets celebrated turns up in video games it turns up in movies you know with the whole evil dead thing you know that is kind of an homage to necronomicon but then let's take a let's take a look a bit at the want to say the philosophical side of things and i think this is a real key area so so one book that kind of comes up is the goddess conspiracy against the human human race right so this is kind of the cosmic horror side of things and then i'll also kind of pull in nietzsche's will to power and then this heideggerian research into that where he talks about european nihilism okay so let's just kind of take it another step for what is this interest in the topics of maybe the sleeping cathu what is sleeping cthulhu right what is the what is the necronomicon as a book why would we seek this out and listen we seek it out in fantasy desktop games because it's fun to imagine you know a horrifying truth that is emerging right and and somewhere between nihilism which comes out of nietzsche let's say like nietzsche saw a certain decline of history and you could see even in lovecraft's writings he often talks about you know some of those kind of calls out to lovecraft's racism let's say where he's talking about like degeneracy and he sees like that you know lovecraft was an odd character not as not as social as he could have been perhaps and he seemed quite fear-based in his interactions with other people right so some of that nihilism comes through where we're no longer celebrating you know it's not the renaissance anymore right it's not humanism is is now on on the tail end of the humanist movement you know we're on the tail end of christianity and and you know authors like dostoyevsky or nietzsche they started looking into this decline of civilization they started looking at this where do we go from here i mean freud classically talks about it in his civilization and its discontents right so freud talks about why is it that civilization that which brought brings us so much so much goodness and so much security and so much safety and so much plenty why is civilization that caught that that cured thousands of years of human struggle in our ability to share resources and improve our technology improve our lifestyle why is it that same civilization is the cause of all human anxiety and at the root of so many neuroses right you have people like and lovecraft's a great example of it you know it's kind of a shut-in he's got his correspondences he's living in a dream world but he's creating great fiction from and he's channeling something and i think i want to kind of get into that channeling and just like dostoyevsky channel just like nietzsche channeled it and in a way in in heidegger's assessment of of nietzsche and his will to power he i think there's two areas that kind of sync up with lovecraft in this let's call it the philosophical section of the lecture of the podcast so in nietzsche's will to power i think there's two big concepts in here one is the nihilism concept that that values are are as we separate ourselves from values as we separate ourselves from believing in a god right as you know nature's god is dead right is kind of a call out to a turning one's back to the traditions of spiritualism and a grounding oneself and a kind of atheistic and then that leads to a nihilistic kind of worldview how does man conduct himself right and i think the the modern counter of this is this conspiracy against the human race which is like the the cosmic horror themes that we love about lovecraft like the hopelessness we're just a rock in space with a pond scum of of you know fleshy mammalian minds something like this right so that so there's the idea of nihilism coming from nature but there's also the idea and this is a weird one of the eternal recurrence right so the eternal recurrence both of these topics discussed by heidegger in his four volume lectures i've got the both editions of this here but the idea of nihilism and the idea of eternal recurrence meaning that history repeats itself kind of in a quick shorthand right why why do we see empires rising and falling why do we see these and then that kind of leads us back to you know lovecraft's correspondences to robert e howard you know the the great old ones civilization before civilization you know alien origins all of these kind of speculative histories that kind of lay below the surface of lovecraft right so you kind of have this play in the philosophy space and in the sort of like social space of you know society is decaying nihilism is rising belief in gods is at its all-time low and just then you've got these two concepts is it nihilism is it just a an expression of you know human anxiety and human fears you know the nightmares of lovecraft or is it something deeper are we turning a page toward the theological toward the occult interests right so i think i think at this point you know maybe we can go into the next section of the topic you know one of the critiques that you have by spiritualists let's say of something like nietzsche or heidegger is that is that they very are much a material maybe atheistic worldview and listen even cosmic core itself is kind of that atheistic so if we only believe in the fleshy mammal mind there's a horror to that in itself and i think that's disgust that's really exploited legati it's really also explored in the the great books from zero books like eugene thacker's in the dust of this planet like the horror of philosophy like this is a great book so you know these books kind of explore that that nihilistic horror that's within the western philosophical tradition where we're sort of moving away from spiritualism and toward neuroscience and things like this right but now and this will eventually and i'll kind of lead this into steiner later right so so the sort of the mind body re dualism re-emerging together in in what a lot of the work that blavatsky was doing so maybe let's go into a cult next let's go into a cult and then we'll end up with psychology and then we'll end up with steiner so in lots of ways everybody's seeking you know necro necromancy right you've got a necronomicon it's a fantastic idea and you've got this access to these powerful beings right and you know i've got this great book from haitian press necrom necromancy i mean this is the most beautiful book i own it's a necromancy in the medici library and these are necromantic spells for getting demons and devils on your side for things like love and influence that i'm working my way through this so it's really curses uncurses wraths it's all kinds of great magic so the idea of these necromantic books was always something that you know the a certain kind of faction of occultist was attracted to you know we have picatrix as we mentioned before there is a historical tradition for exploring dark books in an occult way and finally we have like love finally we have like crowley right so crowley and there's lots of work between showing comparisons to crowley and some of the lovecraftian concepts you know but again what what is this what is this impulse what is the impulse to try to break the veil between magic and science or religion and science there's sort of this breaking this portals opening right so i kind of want to go into the influences of lovecraft maybe and as we know there's there's lots of evidence necronomicon files pointed out biographers of lovecraft pointed out there's lots of evidence that he kind of poopooed theology he kind of looked down on astrology he wasn't particularly spiritual and at the same time as i've talked about in lots of my podcasts i'm quite interested in the overlap between imagination and spiritualism i guess is the thing where it's sort of like there's a what are we contacting with right so i think isis unveiled talks a lot about the the blending of science and theology right and i think that there's even parallels between jung and say crowley right because if you read crowley and you read young side by side writings you know somewhat in similar time frames or saying like reacting to the changing world at in a similar time you can also see that there's a bit of an occultist in jung and there's a bit of a psychologist in crowley you know i mean crowley is definitely in a lot of ways speaking to them the modern do what thou wilt and that shall be the law is very you know very self-affirming it's very independent thinking it's very egocentric and but it's also very much the way people have been disenfranchised from you know organized religions in a lot of ways in the west at least and and i think jung also kind of calls this out in in his aeon right and in jung's aeon he also talks about the idea that the age of christianity you know the christ age was sort of a necessity of the long procession of history and that was sort of a lesson that the world had to go through like we went from the age of the the prior age the roman empire time the greek and roman empire times and then we moved into this christian era which was where we looked inward in the christian era right so people were looking inward and and steiner goes off a lot about this but you start to see there's some talk here with the aeon that takes us back to nietzsche's return return eternal recurrence right the idea of large swaths of time are progressing and the spirit of the age is changing and yet some things are repeating and i think even crowley crowley's tarot is based on the aeon right he has the a on his cr in his tarot which is linked to his symbolism from kabbalah and things like this in his so i think there's a certain kind of magic at work in just contemplating these ideas and where do we find lovecraft's fiction well obviously inspired by all of the above i mean inspired by blavatsky inspired somewhat by occultism lovecraft comes out with this idea of not only sleeping gods under the ocean not only ancient old ones before history but of a mad god at the center of the cosmos you know things that are too frightful to know about rising cities which kind of seem like an analog to atlantis you know about the sort of a twisted version of religion you know sort of a twisted view of it and and in a lot of ways channeling in a fictional way channeling a lot of crowley's work and channeling a lot of jung's work and channeling a lot of levatsky's work can we call it influences sure it could be just fiction with influences but i want to go back to that idea not of necronomicons as being just hoaxes and not to take all the fun out of lovecraft as a fiction but to talk about now our obsession with lovecraft and the necronomicon and when i say our i mean there's so many copies of necronomicons out there there's lots of fans for there's dozens of games out there about lovecraft and it goes back to and this will kind of bridge us into the final section of the podcast so hey thanks for joining so far if you have some comments would love to hear from you we'll probably advance this to a live stream at some point i'm just trying to build up some followers so it's really important just starting out my channel if you can like and subscribe also patreon down below i am planning to keep going with this exploring some texts deeply and your support would be really appreciated love to hear from you guys what you think and i will respond back if you guys have questions or any comments for some future content i think next month i'm going to focus on frank herbert's dune i'm going to do a bunch of podcasts on dune but with a similar bent dune and and some alchemical work and also doing in the work of samia butler with the benny jesuit so that that's some stuff that's coming up so thanks for your support and looking forward to your comments okay so let's go into the end of the christian era and the next aeon well this is where you know jordan peterson has called a on the most frightening book and in a way it is quite it's quite a statement that jung makes i've read aeon a few times now and it's always amazing how much is in there but the idea is christianity was sort of flawed a bit in that it it pushed it gave us only jesus right jesus is the you know maybe the ideal of the self like the idea of jesus is a template for what a a good person should be a strong person a spiritual person right but there was another side that of the you know the great the great manichaean heresy let's call it that's with jung pointing out the jesus satan kind of valiance valence right and i think this this comes out a lot with the resurging interest in gnosticism right so these days you can't throw a stone without another gnostic nancy coming out and telling us about you know the gnostic world and listen i think it's great i love watching aeon bite love watching people talk about narcissism enjoy lectures of terence mckenna talking about gnosticism i think you know in university i got to study under learned a lot about mithraism and gnosticism from from university had some great professors there and and i think that the gnostic tradition where where there's a different sort of you know world view and i think to put it in christian terms you know it's in the book of john which is about the logos coming down and also that the god the god of the old testament is is a mad demiurge right and you start looking at a mad god who has a horrific distorted idea of what the world can be it doesn't bode well for us right and this kind of is the opposite of the nihilism position right the nihilism position is like and it's in it's the gnostics are kind of like the existential position right so again we have that that that that sort of voyage from nihilism and then moder like you know ancient gnosticism and then modern gnosticism as existentialism and you know in a way that the existential dread of cosmic horror is right in that space and yet and yet jung says there's a reckoning coming in the next aeon in which we'll have to balance out that energy right we'll have to look at rising forces and again you start saying rising forces you start seeing old ones and i want to kind of compare this in with jung's topic of the shadow work right and this is going to lead us to rudolph steiner so shadow work for jung is the concept of you know we have the unconscious right and within the unconscious jung discovered a wealth of a wealth of a structure let's call of the the bigger self so the self is comprised of both our conscious ego and our conscious persona the way we present ourselves to the world and the way we think of ourselves but also a deep unconscious and that deep unconscious actually is our connectedness to the human story right so we've come from our parents we come from our grandparents were born in our countries our countries went through turmoils that set the stage for different generations who reacted to it all the way back through history this long trail back through history and jung discovered without with his alchemy and collective unconscious work that you could actually tap into one's own unconscious and discover through structures within the unconscious that you discovered things like the animus and the anima which are like relating functions or echoes of our parents influence on us so we have mothers and fathers and you know that gives us an idea of what a man is what a woman is we internalize these things they they merge with the myth making collective unconscious mechanism and then then we our struggle begins to find who we are and our place in our in the world and knowing ourself you know let's just put it this way and if somebody could summarize it better we could talk about this ion forever so the idea here is if we take that unconscious journey you know even freud calls looking at dreams as like the river archeron right so the asheron you know the river of the underworld and it's sort of like there's always this kind of submerged underworld with unconscious work and the other structure jung talked about was the shadow which is sort of like the part of you that you don't want to see but all your friends could kind of see like when you act you know you might be prideful but you think of yourself as humble but you get this haughty thing that your friends notice but you always kind of look away from it you don't want to see yourself as weak you don't want to see your bad things and we live in a time where we're self-affirmating right we we live in a time of to to sort of embrace oneself but we also live in a time where people are introspective and this has come on since really since christian times which may be in some ways an early psychology right and so this work of let's look at where our weaknesses are and do that shadow work young also expanded this idea of the shadow work into the work of the generation and he has a great essay a frightening essay on odin that he wrote as on the rise of world war ii talking about how this odinic metaphor of the collective unconscious was like odin as the as the visitor from the woods who comes and messes things up and stirs stirs the hearts of people in ways that they didn't expect you know and we can find that as we go through for example you know this is there's this saying that you don't know what someone's made of until you see them under pressure under stress and certain things emerge out of their personality right and we can even see in these current times with the couf and stuff like that how there's lots of fear and paranoia like our you know people transmitters of of are they vectors you know and i think that a bit of that paranoia has come throughout the ages i mean we've had communist scares we've had inquisitions we've had you know qatar crusades we've had lots of you know we've had heresies in the church we'd have christians burned there's been lots of these fear-based reactions to a collective shadow and then something suddenly about lovecraft's necronomicon work lovecraft's old ones work seems to be paralleling the researches that jung was doing with the aeon and even the researchers that crowley was doing when crowley talks about the demonic summoning it to me it's almost a parallel but with a different focus on looking within and raising it up right so you raise for jung it's about raising the shadow in the unconscious to the consciousness to know your own weak spot let's say to know your own flaw and to sort of bring it forward and you can do it just within yourself you know you can you know without going out of your door you can know all things on earth right and so but the world shadow is something much bigger the world shadow is like you know how did you know how did world war ii happen right how did a crusade against the qatar happen how did how do these horrific horrific wars and things like this how do we find ourselves again back to nietzsche how do we find ourselves in these this eternal recurrence of the same right why is it that man keeps struggling with these things and suddenly here i kind of feel a bit of where our inspiration fascination of the necronomicon and with lovecraft lay because i feel that this is the space and i think that i think that necronomicon files touches on this but i kind of am taking it as you can see in a further direction that the urge to know the great old ones through the black grimoire of necronomicon is really la is really lacking the tools to wrestle with lost history the lies of history the shadow of our past which sounds a little bit like original sin and our relation to other entities you know and there's a lot of these relations that we don't have the spiritual science to deal with i mean i think that a lot of the christian age science took a step away from religion but you still have mysticism and mystery schools that kind of talked about this stuff and i think this is a great transition into this work by rudolf steiner so this book is called the archangel michael his mission in ours and it's a fascinating book it also has a deep history and aeon theme this edition has the johannes trimethius appendix where he talks about the different angels ruling different swaths of history different aeons of history and how they're ruled by each of these angels and that's what characterized the events of that age so it's kind of like this taking the history the wheel of history and breaking it into these houses almost astrologically you know and very much so the way jung works with his aeon you know there was the pre-christian era there were errors before that and there was a christian era now we're moving into this other era and like sleeping cthulhu steiner talks about ariman so ariman is a originally i believe it's a persian deity but for steiner's work ariman is a kind of another devil compared to satan so you have lucifer who is more of the genius adversarial the lightbringer super ego you know he's very he's a he's princely almost and he's he's the diabolical devil right and i think that steiner would call out that even the age of science is partly luciferian in that it's a it's marked by genius it's marked about the world it's this world right it's moving into this world and on the other side of that coin you have arimon which is a different kind of it's more of a demonic force so with lucifer you have more the case of you want to be the genius you want to shine you want to be vain right there's vanity there there's also pride there there's so many of those sins that are in the lucifer strain but if you go into the arimon strain it's more like no no we want you to be reduced to a cog we want you to be reduced to just part of a bigger demonic machine no no identity no individualism no a diminished access to spirit in mind dumbed down almost right so so steiner really refines in his works i'm i'm gonna i'm picking up the book lucifer and ariman by steiner maybe i'll do a steiner month after after i've got the after my next month with dune books i also want to do a philip k dick month so maybe i'll have a poll in the patreon if you guys want to pick which month you want to come first can do the steiner month we can do philip k dick i've got a a lot of great research into philip k dick that you they'd like to share with you but anyway so going back to the question of these various devils like why is steiner interested in it well mainly steiner is fascinated by the idea of our place in relation to evil and enter the archangel michael so what we have in this work is so let's think of the idea of redeeming evil right and this will get us back to lovecraft eventually so just bear with me here but it also is about jung's aeon it's a similar point to yongsan so with jung's aeon he has the idea of the christ event happens we go to the go through the 2000 years of the age of pisces the fish age the christian era now we're entering the aeon of aquarius so it's the starlight pouring down onto onto the earth it's the flow of aquarian energy down something like this and it's also potentially a re-valuing of how will we reconcile the christ instinct and the satanic instinct how do we resolve that and that that tension will be the next challenge perhaps of the next 2000 years well this is exactly what rudolph steiner says rudolph steiner echoes this 100 that it will be in the coming ages the duty of people to stand while these arimonic forces rise and one can't help but hear the echoes of lovecraft this kind of reluctant sensitive type who hey in giving us great fiction we often get great philosophy and we get some great lessons on the failings of spirituality the failings of civilization and i think lovecraft is no different i mean obviously dostoyevsky jumps to mind about someone who really can take moral dilemmas and psychologize them and take us inside to the the horrific torment that can go on in a person's conscience i mean this is dostoyevsky taking real world real world environmental interactions and then the internalized journey of the of the protagonist lovecraft does a total different thing though lovecraft just gives us enough of a hint of the darkness of the madness of the thing out of our sanity which is something that resonated with me in rudolph steiner and and here's where it is so steiner has a has a section we talked about are our responsibility toward evil so evil exists in the world and and as a as a human being we could do something to stop something that's harmful to mankind let's say so say for example take a small let's take it from a small example like somebody steals something from the local store and you catch him right and then you say tell him why stealing's bad and you reconcile that crime something like this or you do something where there's a suffering and you remove the suffering right so there's a hunger and you feed right something like this or there's no education and you educate so there's these little effects of evils that are you know and i think this is the 20th century is mostly about framing all evil in like socio-economic political ways right but there is in steiner's view there's a root that's more evil there's a there is the evil and it kind of goes back to one of the things that turns people off from religion is how could god let evil exist and that's where that's one of those points that jung talks about is that there is this manichaean heresy that's still alive and the american manichaean heresy is that that good and evil are both forces that play out in the human soul and and steiner gets really deep on this the steiner takes this very deeply so the idea is yeah you can work to prevent evil but at some point the evil will be too big for you to work with it right so this is where i mean this is this is a great theme of lovecraft and it's a great theme of a lot of modern horror movies you know the idea of there's something on the other side it's really evil it possesses the person they're lost in the dark world you know there's a lot of movies with this kind of theme and lovecraft has this always this device of the horror of the characters figuring out that the world that they knew is not what it seemed and it's and it's a thin veneer away from horrors beyond imagination and i think with that spirit lovecraft was tapped right into this odinic force that jung talks about the the shadow work of the the age even with crowley's sort of idea of what the occult role in the black schools of magic sort of fit with this where it's like given the fact that these forces are out there crowley's kind of like hey given the force that these the fact that these forces are out there how do we position ourselves as you know even semi-atheistic beings like how do we think about we don't really know what the entities and the forces are let's know them and this is his occult a bit of his occult response and it comes off as a black school but in a way it's very parallel to jung's work as you know this integration work you know shadow integration but the weird point that we get to that's kind of like the unknowable nature of the madness of as a thoth or the or the unknowable knowledge of yokesoth author or or what waits for us when sleeping cthulhu awakens or the history bending portrayal of neurolethotip right what what steiner says with angel market michael archangel michaels michael's often depicted with his foot upon or his sword over over the devil and michael is seen as the you know if you look at prayer cards or whatever michael is always the vanquisher of evil you know police have prayers to in the day had prayers to saint michael to protect them you know so so in a way he was the archangel assigned to lucifer and steiner kind of doubles down on this and he talks about how well if the idea of if the idea is redemption of evil right the redemption of evil you get to a point where the evil is big enough right the evil is big enough that it will drive a person mad or corrupt a person right so this kind of this sounds a lot like the warnings in the beginning of the necronomicon or the warnings from lovecraft's investigators into the great old ones who come up against madness and it's also a mechanic of so many of these so many of these lovecraftian games and listen back to the steve jackson idea just because we love to have fun with it and play it doesn't mean it doesn't echo in the truth i mean some of steve jackson's games seem prophetic even right with his and i call it fourth wall sort of breaking but you know he had i believe he had images of world trade towers something weird like that in one of one of his illuminati games but anyway so so the idea here is that so with the evil so big that evil that kind of a lovecraft sort of talked about the evils that we see purported to be summoning in a necronomicon with an evil that big only the archangel michael is strong enough to redeem that angel so michael's mission it says his mission michael's mission is to be the redeemer of satan so here again we have a shadow work right what is to redeem the evil mean well in a jungian sense we kind of go back to jung he kind of feels that within each of us there's the propensity of good and the propensity of evil and that those forces sort of have to be that those things have to be brought to consciousness right so the idea of bringing it to consciousness means be aware of why it's happening be aware of what you're doing right and it's a double-edged sword and you can see that if if if crowley has a slightly different idea of this if he's the black school then you might see steiner as the white school which is the idea of crowley's kind of idea is like get yours because they'll take it from you and kind of crowl these things learn to harness the force which is kind of like what jung is saying too learn to integrate the shadow but what steiner says is oh it's the mannequin heresy was was made a heresy to kind of keep it from us for a while it's like it's sleeping cthulhu right it's the idea of there is a big evil and the big evil will rise and the fleshy minds of mortals won't be able to contend with it but hey good news is there's again gnostically right we start looking at the the the rising to the logos there are forces above the demiurge and michael archangel comes out as this force which is there to take the role of redeeming satan and only something at an archangel level could redeem something as powerful as satan and so yeah i haven't i haven't read steiner's lucifer and ariman series but i think that's i think that's a a good place to stop what do you guys think i mean where do you think where do you feel lovecraft lies on that spectrum of is he just a lost soul or did he really tap into some of these deep-seated cultural shadows called collective unconscious did he really tap into it in a way that sort of shows you know it's not just nihilism there is a reason for the nihilism and the reason for the nihilism is we know we're at the end of an era and we're dawning into a new era and this is a long gnostic eternal recurrence and in doing so in evoking the idea of a necronomicon he's almost finding like in a way the necronomicon could be something of the books i've showed you today like the idea is we're looking into the dark space we're talking about ways to control it ways to understand it ways to know it we're looking at the limits of it you know with with steiner the limits of it is like well you're not an archangel so good luck to you right and necronomicon files talks about this too it's like why would anyone want to raise something that's the madness of the universe right and it goes into the young shadow work and it goes into crowley's occult research and it goes into our general fascination from all the ages in the necromantic text you know like even yeah maybe i'll leave it at that so so yeah what do you guys think podcast number four winding down here love to hear from everyone leave a comment really help me out to like and subscribe if you're interested in this kind of stuff you can check out the genealogy of cthulhu the psychoanalysis of realia sort of skirting the the line between science and horror really appreciate it and check out the patreon below okay guys gonna wrap it up here look forward to some more podcasts next month doing some book reviews as well appreciate your support and you can check out pontos fathom hobbies as i mentioned if you're into cthulhu and lovecraft playing all the games over there so thanks a lot for watching and if you made it this far you're the best bye
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